Beta Review

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Beta Review

Post by Kytross »

Introduction

I just finished up the beta weekend. I actually had a few days off to play, partly because I was sick, and mostly because I couldn't get overtime. So I played in the Beta. A lot. A lot lot. A lot lot lot. Sometimes with Busefalis/Skif/Kaldone (Kal) and his wife Gryphonangel/Tallya, mostly by myself or with random people I met.

It was great. Those of you who haven't touched the game yet, prepare to be amazed. I can't speak for end game content but I played up to level 18 and it was, in my opinion, a finished game. There were a few minor bugs, I got stuck a few times and had to /stuck to get free, which kills you, and a few more I can't remember off hand because they were minor and quite forgettable. I've been in for the launch of WoW, City of Heroes/Villains (CoH), Star Trek Online (STO), and Dark Ages of Camelot, and I can say, without reservation, that SWTOR is more polished as a Beta then any of those games were at release. More amazingly, it is perfectly balanced, with every class and advanced class having advantages and disadvantages but none being superior or flawed. At least up to level 18, out of 50.

I played Jedi Consular to 6, Jedi Knight and Sith Inquisitor to 12, Imperial Agent to 14, and a Bounty Hunter to 18 giving me a well-rounded experience in the game. I purposely stayed away from the three classes I wanted to play when the game goes live because I wanted their storylines to be fresh the first time I played them.


Initial notes about the game

You may notice a lot of stuff starts at level 10, or when you leave your first planet. In some ways the first ten levels are a tutorial on game basics: grouping, combat, questing, etc. Well, if that's what Bioware meant to do, it worked. By the time you leave your homeworld you have a solid grasp for your character, have had a few levels playing with your companion and have had ample grouping opportunities. All while having fun.

At level 1 you're a viable character with an enough skills to play. As soon as you start the game you will be able to take on two or three base level enemies and survive. You'll need to heal, but you can survive. The only heal you get, until people choose advanced classes, is a self heal and everyone gets one at start. The self heal is an out-of-combat, heal over time with no cooldown or resource cost. It's an amazing idea and well implemented. For instance, with my first Jedi Knight I leveled to three before I went back to train and it was fine. If I had gone back to get force leap at 2 I probably could have gone on to 5 or 6 with just my level 2 powers. In other words, unlike some other MMOs you won't be killed by 'a giant rat' when you're level 1 (Everquest I'm looking at you, not that WoW was much better), nor do you have to worry about wandering monsters or attacking just one spawn group, things are perfectly spaced out.

The thing that happened to me, twice, was getting trained by other players. Both times I was taking on a spawn group of a couple even level mobs, holding my own, near the end of the fight when some higher level idiot ran by me with a trail of 5 mobs. I survived one of the trains but not both. BOTH HAPPENED TO MY JEDI CHARACTERS. It happened with my Sith Inquisitor too, but Kal was with me so we just handled it and moved on. Be warned, the newest/worst players tend to want to play with glow sticks, err lightsabers.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that unlike other MMOs, you don't have to wait until you're level 10 or 20 to have fun or to get your class defining skills. Jedi Knights start with sword attacks reminiscent of the movies. Jedi Consulars have a telekinetic attack to start. Inquisitors are tossing lightning straight out of the gate. Bounty Hunters start with decent armor, wrist rockets and a blaster pistol. The Imperial agent starts with a rifle and can go into cover (and I think has snipe but that may be level 2). The only thing you're waiting on is to get your lightsaber; that is something you have to earn, surprisingly around level 10. You are a hero in the world as soon as you start playing. All four of the classes for each side has a different play style that is unique among the other classes in their faction. At ten, or so, you pick your advanced class, leave your starting world and again, it's a different style of play from the other advanced class.

I'd like to note here that when you get your companion or hit your advanced class isn't based on your level, rather it's all based on how far along you are in your class quest/storyline. Most people get their companion around 8-10 and get their advanced class around 9-12. Most people will get their ships around 20 or so. One person I played with had his ship at 13, but all he did was class quests, no grouping, no flashpoints and none of the other quests in the same area. With three hours left on the Beta I dropped all my other quests and focused on my class questline so I could get a ship and test space combat, which I got at 17. I missed some great storylines doing it that way, but I wanted to see what space combat was like while I had a chance. And FYI, you do not get a bank slot until you get your ship, usually around level 20, so get used to selling stuff you don't need.


Class Gameplay Reviews

I'm not going to touch on storylines here. They are all amazing and I don't want to spoil anything for you. Go buy the game and play it for yourself. What I will do is review the gameplay styles and resource management of the four classes, as well as what their advanced classes can do.

Jedi Knights and Sith Warriors have a resource mechanic where you build focus/rage by doing basic attacks until you spend the focus/rage on an advanced attack. At level one you have a basic attack that gives you 2 focus and an advanced attack that spends 3 focus. You can do two basic attacks, to get four focus/rage, spend three on the advanced attack, use another basic to bring your total back to three and then spend it all on another advanced attack. Rereading that sounds like a bunch of math, but in game you get a bar with big bubbles/cells/ovals showing you how much focus/rage you have. It's wicked fun, easy and intuitive once you play it. Other skills you get give and cost different amounts of rage. Advanced skills allow you to stay with one lightsaber and wear heavy armor wit tanking and damage options, or take two melee trees and two lightsabers, while staying in medium armor.

Jedi Consulars and Sith Inquisitors use a bar similar to a mana bar in other rpgs, though it regens quickly. Every spell costs so much mana, except for your basic melee attack. Advanced classes give you the option to become a master of melee combat with invisibility and tanking options, or go long range with damage and healing options. Your range attacks start at 10 meters, but if you go sage/sorcerer as your advanced class your range attacks extend to 30 meters like everyone else. I'm guessing this will be the most popular class. If you want to toss lightning or do telekinetic attacks or wield a double bladed lightsaber, this is the class for you. These classes have options to melee dps, range dps, tank, heal and even do some crowd control.

Imperial Agents (and theoretically smugglers) rely on energy, similar to a rogue's energy bar in WoW. It regens FAST and every attack, except for your basic shot, cost energy. These classes also start with cover and that's something amazing and innovative. You can take a knee and become harder to hit at anytime by hitting 'F' or clicking on the GUI button. When you take cover you become harder to hit and it opens up your 'cover bar' a separate bar filled with attacks that can be done from cover. You can put any regular attack on your cover bar, but you also get attacks that can only be done from cover., like Snipe. Snipe is a long range, high damage attack, with a cast time of 1.5 seconds or so. You cannot move when you're in cover. Here's the best part, IF you see the green silhouette and roll into cover behind a physical object, and IF you keep the cover between you and your adversary, you cannot take damage from MOST attack while you're not attacking. That's a lot of conditional modifiers, but the trade off is not taking damage if you do it right, which is huge. Imagine you're healing for a group. That's right, you can heal from cover. As a Scoundrel/Operative you get access to invisibility and healing as well as damage, focusing more on close range damage. As a Sniper/Gunslinger you get extreme long range damage out to 35 meters! Everyone else is capped out at 30 meters except snipers and gunslingers. You may think 5 extra meters isn't much, but wait until you attack from max range with an ambush, your most devastating attack with a 4 second cast time, follow it with leg shot, that immobilizes your opponent for 5 secs, which gives you five seconds to unload on your opponent while they're too far away to hit you back. I rather enjoyed my sniper.

The Bounty Hunter uses heat as their resource, the Trooper uses ammo. I don't know how ammo works, but heat is a reverse energy bar. Each attack, except your basic blaster attack, adds heat to your systems. When the bar fills up you can't attack anymore, except for your basic blaster attack, and have to vent the heat with the one ability they give you at level 2 or 3, or wait until your heat dies down enough for you to use more attacks. You also get heat reducing skills in your skill tree, but I didn't progress that far. In normal combat you won't even notice it, but I overheated in every single boss fight, even solo bosses from quests. Which is a good thing. It was challenging, which is what you want resource management to do, challenge you. I learned to not just unload all my big attacks upfront, but to do one or two attacks and then my basic blaster attack, maybe the blaster attack again and then back to the heavy damage. This left my options open, leaving me with one quarter to half a bar of heat, so when I wanted to really unload, I could. For advanced classes you choose between long range damage and healing OR close range damage and tanking.

I went the tanking route. It was awesome. You don't get a taunt until 16 or 17 but you get a passive toggle that increases your aggro at 12 or 13. Once you have the passive toggle ability, good luck getting rid of aggro. Oh, the boss may drop you off their sights for a shot or two when a dps player spikes some damage, but if you're rock steady on heavy attack, heavy attack, blaster, heavy attack, heavy attack, blaster, you won't lose the boss's aggro. Once I started tanking I opened up fights with three heat based attacks before I went for my basic blaster move, just to get his attention. Specifically it went delayed explosion wrist rocket, flurry of blaster blots damage-over-time, regular wrist rocket, basic blaster, then wrist rocket, wrist rocket, basic blaster while I either closed on him or he closed on me. Once I got in close it was burst of flame, rocket punch or flame thrower damage-over-time or wrist laser, depending on what was up, then basic blaster. In between I had a number of other things I could fire off: defensive buffs, stuns, venting heat, a one minute minor regen and the like. One of the nice things about the active taunt was that for six seconds it reduced damage caused by the mob by 30% when it attacked anyone but me. If the boss was surrounded by trash mobs I opened up with my highest damage attack, DEATH FROM ABOVE.

Death from Above was awesome. You jet pack up into the air and hover as you fire off a flurry of rockets into a set area. It kills basic level mobs and all but kills silver star elite mobs. A silver star elite mob needs one more hit from your basic blaster or a single wrist rocket to go down after Death from Above. It's on a long cooldown, five minutes I think, and its five meter minimum distance makes it fairly useless in the middle of a boss fight for a tank, but it is a nice opening attack, especially for clearing out the trash. I tend to use it to quickly take out groups of low level mobs, and you can generally fire it off once or twice between boss fights as you're working your way towards them.


Mobs

In ascending order of lethality the mobs go: regular non-star mob, silver star elite, gold star elite, gold and silver star elite (mini boss), bosses. The stars display next to their profile when you click on them or mouse over them. By yourself, no companion, the silver star elites with two regular mobs are tough to get through, especially if one of those regular mobs is a medic. With a companion they're pretty easy. Gold stars become tough fights with your companion. Even level gold and silver star elites require at least one other person and their companion for you to beat them.


Comparisons to other MMOs

Everyone wants to compare SWTOR to WoW. Probably because WoW is the most successful MMO out there and the one everyone is familiar with. There was alot of complaints that SWTOR was just WoW with lightsabers. I have to assume these complaints were coming from kids with glow sticks (Jedi and Sith) because there is nothing in WoW remotely similar to the Imperial Agent/smuggler and the Bounty Hunter/Trooper. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And there is nothing similar to space combat in WoW. And where are WoW's interactive cutscenes and excellent stories that draw you in and make you sympathize with the characters? Oh yeah, they're not there either.

WoW has been out for what seven years? Ten? Fifty? I prefer comparisons with STO or one of the more modern MMOs. STO has an interesting pet system, giving you control of four npcs on away missions. SWTOR gives you numerous companions over time and you can choose one to come with you on missions. SWTOR's one companion is smarter and more useful than STO's five. STO's ground combat was very similar to the Imperial Agent and Bounty Hunter. STO had cut scenes with voice overs. STO's cutscenes weren't interactive but there were plenty of them. And while there wasn't a great deal of content in STO, mostly it was repetitive missions, the main missions had excellent storylines that felt like you were in Star Trek.

Apparently people wanted Bioware to reinvent the MMO genre. Bioware did better than that. By incorporating the best aspects of gameplay from across the MMO genre, Bioware perfected it.


Companions

The companion is an amazing addition. They are more than pets in other MMOs, and have amazing AI. I had a melee companion (Inquisitor), two ranged companions (Jedi Knight & Agent) & a healer (Bounty Hunter). At no point did I have to take control of them to tell them what to do, though I could give them commands if I wanted to. In the case of the healer, she healed a flashpoint for me on two occasions. That's right, my 'pet' kept an entire group alive during a flashpoint as the only healer, not once, but for two flashpoints. One of Kal's complaints when he made a healer was that at level ten the healing 'pet' was in some ways a better healer than his inquisitor.


Flashpoints

The flashpoints were excellent. I only did the two 10-16ish flashpoints: one Imperial, one Republic, but I played them alot. I leveled my Bounty Hunter from 11 to 13 exclusively by running the Imperial flashpoint, Black Talon. Then I went back at 14 to run it two more times with my Bounty Hunter. I had a blast. The voice acting was starting to get a little boring after I heard it ten times in a row, but c'est la guerre. The action was spot on and perfectly balanced for a group of 10-12's to take on. Kal & I duo'd it with our companions at 13-14ish. Yes, that was one of the two times my companion healed a flashpoint, and to be honest, at that point it was a cake run. Make sure you have a healer with you when you take on a flashpoint, those boss fights are nasty without them.

At 14 I got the quest for Hammer Station, the next Imperial flashpoint, but it was Monday and I couldn't get a group. I didn't try too long either, I was pretty grouped out on my Bounty Hunter at that point.

I'd like to note the difference between flashpoints and taskforces. Flashpoints are instances designed for 2-4 people to take on. In most MMOs we called these dungeons. Taskforces are designed for 8-16 people. In most MMOs we called these raids. I didn't get high enough to get in on a taskforce.


Crew Skills and Modifications

You don't choose Crew Skills until you leave your starting planet, around level 10ish. I didn't spend much time crafting, but I spent tons of time sending my companion out to run missions for me. It's very similar to Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, where you could send your assassins out to earn money and rewards for you by completing missions. Similar idea, but with gathering professions. People said it was like farmville. I don't know, I've never played farmville. I do know that this system was an excellent idea, and excellently done. Me, whenever I was running a flashpoint wihtout my companion, they were off making me credits with slicing, or running other crew skill missions.

What little crafting I did was fun. I tried cybernetics, which makes you items that you can modify your equipment with. The better gear in game derives its stats from modifications, allowing the player a high degree of customization. I didn't get a hat on my Bounty Hunter but I saw Kal wearing one which he had bought from a social item vendor. It was a dumb looking hat, but hey, one more piece of gear, right? Well it didn't come with stats but it had three modification slots. Because I went cybernetics I was able to make two mods for it and gave myself some stats in the old head piece.

Modifications really start around level 10 too. What little I did I liked quite a bit. If you have a modifiable item and get a better modifiable item check the mods to see if everything is better. You may want to pull a mod out of your current item and put it in the new item to make it better. Pulling mods out of an item costs a few credits and binds the mod and the item to you, so you can't trade it.

Fair warning, weapons, practically all weapons, have gems in them and if it has a red gem you have to be dark side to use the weapon while green & blue are restricted to lightside. Yellow and orange are usable by either side, and I didn't see a purple gem.


Codex and Exploration

If you have a question about Crew Skills or anything else, anything at all, check the codex. That thing is amazing. You can find it in your mission log under the tab marked Codex. The codex rewards you with information and experience for exploring new areas and right clicking on glowing blue lore objects. You can also find holocrons hidden across the galaxy. Holocrons reward you with a permanent stat boost. It's usually only 1 or 2 points, but it's a permanent addition to your base stats. SWTOR rewards you for exploration.


Duct tape is like the Force, it has a light side and a dark side and it binds the universe together

Light and dark points give you access to specific alignment gear. Light and dark side points are determined by the choices you make in the cutscenes, which are fantastic. This game is like being in a movie. The cutscenes are probably the best feature in the game. I know, this is a minor little sentence buried in a paragraph late in my review. But the cut scenes are so amazing I don't have to hype them up at all. You'll see.


Space Combat

Space combat is complained about a lot. Apparently people wanted something closer to star wars galaxies or STO or X-Wing vs TIE Fighter. I'm not sure exactly what they wanted. But let me tell you what we got is pretty good. It feels like you're in one of the movies.

Space combat is very much like the Star Wars arcade game that came out in the late 90's where you had to sit down and had the two joysticks. Or to put it into technical gaming terms, it's a 3-dimensional scrolling shooter where you control your vessel with an odd, but intuitive, combination of the mouse and the wasd keys. Yes, both the mouse and wasd moves your ship. It's twitch gaming, i.e. reflex or hand-eye-coordination based gaming, and I loved it. It's a 3-dimensional version of a top down or side-scrolling shooter and it's just fantastic.

Space Combat is in no way a RPG playstyle, which is what seemed to be at the heart of people's complaints, but that's probably why the programmers classify it as a mini-game. If you don't like it you don't have to play it, and you're not missing out on storyline. But if you do like it, it's a fun change of pace, and let's face it, MMO RPGs can drudge along as you grind through the levels hitting the same buttons over and over again. A change of pace is a good thing. I look forward to seeing it in group combat. FYI, equip your ship before you go on your first mission, go ahead and spend those credits, it's worth it to have shields. I didn't learn that you could upgrade your ship until I beat the first space combat mission, on my third try. I got a commendation that can be traded in for ship upgrades, which meant the ship could be upgraded, so I ran back to the main space station and went searching for a vendor, because I wanted shields and I wanted them three missions ago.

For anyone familiar with STO, the space combat here is completely different. STO's was innovative and very much an RPG style, capital ship to capital ship style space combat with nothing else quite like it out there. SWTOR has twitch space combat very similar to a number of games out there, including the latest version of Yar's Revenge. When you play SWTOR's space combat you feel like you're in one of the movies, flying against all odds in a tiny little fighter or modified light freighter, like the Millenium Falcon.


Conclusion

All-in-all I had a blast this weekend. SWToR kept me company when I was sick and too weak to do anything but press buttons and eat crackers. I look forward to seeing you guys in game. I still plan to play as a Trooper, now more than ever. The question is, do I go for tanking or massive AoE damage with the cannon. Maybe I'll have to roll 2 Troopers...
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes!" - Except, apparently, that one.

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Re: Beta Review

Post by KetMaliss »

Kyt - excellent review mate! I loved your perspective and I'm very excited that you are planning on going Trooper on launch. Have you figured out if you'll be playing with us yet? It would be great to have another gun-toting maniac around :)

Unlike you, I did not have my entire weekend to spend in the game; I'd wager I probably spent between 12-14 hours, give or take, because of my schedule. Also unlike you, most of my time was spent as my primary class, though the choices I made were completely opposite to the way I intend to given my permanent character. I took a Trooper to level 18, taking my time about it but I was impressed with how smooth and ungrindy the whole thing felt. It really is amazing what a little story can do, because when you truly look at it, you are doing virtually the same things you do in any experience-based MMO; killing a ton of things very often. I was skeptical going in, but they were correct when they said that the story added a new dimension to the grind; you give a damn, and you don't even realize how much you are doing, and before you know it hours have flown by, and so have levels.

Much the same as you, I was impressed with how you started out feeling epic. I know that the BH and the Trooper are supposed to mirror each other, and if that's the case than you already have a basic idea of what to expect. I absolutely had a blast with the massive AoE capabilities of the Trooper, so much that I'll probably make two because one of them is going to have to be a Commando, but I've always loved healing in MMOs and Trooper healing seems loads of fun as well.

Whereas you opened up to devasting effect by launching into the air with a jet-pack powered volley of missiles, the Trooper has a similar ability where he launches a mortar volley, knocking down anything considered Weak, if not outright killing them all. By the time my beta ended, everything not the strongest level of NPC was usually dead by the final volley anyway, and if it wasn't it was by the next attack.

The resource is ammo, which maybe I didn't quite spend enough time understanding but I had trouble managing it...and I never really experienced resource trouble in WoW before, regardless of class. I'm not sure if the abilities needed tweaking or if I was just "doing it wrong", but even if I tried to stay with my light attacks as often as possible I found myself running dry. Then again, they did give us a "cell" somewhere around level 15-18 that when activated lets you recharge ammo at a faster rate with your "spam" attack. Still, cells require a second or two to activate and ammo is pretty easy to run down...I can't imagine they want us being forced to toggle cells as often as we would be during extended encounters to stay fresh...so I'm thinking it's just me and I didn't get enough straight time with the class. I just like to unload, lol. Still, Trooper has a lot of fun abilities and explosives, and the visuals are great on all of them.

I also tested out the Smuggler and Jedi Knight to level 6, and both classes left me impressed. Admittedly I had more fun with the Smuggler, but that was just as much because of the cocky attitude and the ability to explodify people with a sticky bomb and a kick to the nuts. The Jedi Knight was fairly straight forward, and to be honest I think I would probably have more fun with the Consular/Inquisitor class. At least to the level I played them, the Knight seems all about the Saber, with little Force tricks to be seen.

I didn't really spend any time with the Bounty Hunter, because honestly I still want that class to be a mystery to me when I eventually roll a Dark Side alt, even if it is a mirror of the Trooper. Honestly, the only reason I rolled one there was to see the Trandoshan named Jory I had heard about, but it turned out to be some other scaly alien thing, though it still tickles me to no end that there is an alien lizard-like merc character with my decade old name running around ToR.

My opinion of Space Combat is the same as everyone else' here - I loved it. I don't mind at all that it's on rails, though I admit I did get frustrated a few times when I just barely missed out on an objective on a pass and I had to wait to circle back around. You did just give me new info because I didn't even realize that there was a Vendor with that stuff - I just thought that all the upgrades would come from repeat space missions, as happened a few times. Pick your reward and all that stuff. I'll have to remember that for Launch, because I am definitely spending more time running that Space Station Destruction quest, and that was just early game. I imagine there will be epic space battles between capital ships in the later levels.

I did try PvP a few times, though this is where it starts to get hairy for me. I'm not usually a fan of PvP by any stretch, but I had heard it was great fun here, and I admit that yes...I do like the balanced nature of the game and the fact that you can't really (at least not that I saw) get locked down and destroyed like you can in WoW. However, the first few times I tried PvP everytime my queue came up and I accepted I crashed to desktop, and lost all of my keybinds in the process. Seriously, like back to back attempts. I waited a bit and tried again, and I got into Huttball...which on the face of it was great fun, but those announcers need to be shot in the face with a blaster. Seriously. By the time my one and only Huttball match had ended, I was about ready to snap if I heard "RAWDOGS DID IT AGAIN" or "UH OH, THAT ROTWORM IS ON A RAMPAGE!!" or something similar. That is going to get very old, very quickly. Every other time I tried to get back into PvP, I got the crash to desktop again, so I just stopped trying. They need to fix that, and they need to add a selective queue so you can pick your warzone...but I understand that's been a demand for ages, so if they haven't done it by now I assume they won't do it until after launch...but honestly, that's going to take points away.

On to my other bug notices:

Upon receiving my first helmet, something resembling the Endor helmets that the soldiers wore on that infamous moon, a strange thing happened. My toon was created with a full mustache and goatee; a beard. The helmet took the beard away and replaced it with a mustache. Toggle off the helmet view in options, the beard returns. Unequip the helmet, the beard returns. Wear the helmet again or toggle helmets visible in options, the beard disappears and the mustache returns. It was interesting, to say the least...and I didn't even notice it at first until a few cutscenes later and I'm like "something is different here...." and then it hits me. I have no beard, just a thick, thick mustache.

Also on Ord Mantell, down in the area I think is your first expanded quest region, where you run into the journalist who is looking for a fellow reporter inside. It borders the ocean, but most of by the quest region is shallow - you can run through it rather than swim. I got fatigue halfway across to the quest area and actually died...in knee deep water. This should not have happened, and I don't know if it was developer intent to prevent us from going that way, but really, when land is that close, what's the point of fatigue? I actually couldn't get back in time before dying. I made it to a cliff wall bording the quest giver and was still getting fatigue. I never made it out alive, even though civilization (such as it is on that planet) was within a stone's throw.

After I got my ship and I have the option to go to either Taris or Nar Shadda, I chose Nar Shadda. I enter a cutscene where I meet with General Garza, and out of nowhere a nearly nude (i.e. nothing but underclothes) blonde female blinks into existence and stands at attention next to me and Aric as the General gives me my quest. Upon the cutscene ending, she is nowhere to be found...so I've got a ghostly nude female wandering around my ship, apparently.

On the Knight character, when I'm getting my first summons to the Council, Setelle Shan shows up but she's as tiny as an ant.

Upon completion of a turned in quest with a full inventory, and the quest has an item reward, the game told me to make room in my inventory for it. When I destroyed an item to make room and clicked on the NPC again I just get a standard greeting. I assumed the item reward was gone, but lo and behold the quest completion pops up *after* I turn in another quest. This seems confusing to me.


During the Esseles flashpoint, at the end when the ship has left, the camera pans to a shot of the viewport and the Star Destroyer can still be seen firing in the background, even as the NPC in the cutscene is thanking you for the clean getaway.

I heard numerous companions talking or boasting when nobody else was around or visible.

These seem like numerous gripes but honestly...none of them are enough to hold me back from playing the game at launch because my experience was overwhelmingly positive and enjoyable - and things like this can and very likely will be fixed before launch. They all seem like easily fixable glitches, bugs or things that can be polished out. Still, I heard that the tiny Setelle has been an issue for awhile, and when I mentioned it in General there was quite a few murmers of surprise that it was still there, so I have to wonder what else the BW team knows about but hasn't fixed yet, either because of ability, time, or something else.

That being said, as mentioned I still loved my brief time in game, and I will absolutely buy it. To be honest I went in completely burned out on WoW and skeptical that another MMO could bring back the magic I felt when I first found that game. ToR has erased any doubt, and while I maintain my reservation that there will be enough to do and enjoy after the leveling is done, I'm willing to trust BW enough to find out what they haven't told us about or implemented, or have in store down the pipeline.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Kytross »

Both Money Market/Kaldone & I will be making rp characters to play with you guys. Just tell me the server and guild name.

If I can I'll make a James Venator character in addition to the trooper.
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes!" - Except, apparently, that one.

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Re: Beta Review

Post by Cadden »

Your post was so long that I stopped reading after "Introduction."

Just thought you should know that. :mrgreen:
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Xanamiar wrote:Cadden is a comical genius.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by KetMaliss »

Cadden wrote:Your post was so long that I stopped reading after "Introduction."

Just thought you should know that. :mrgreen:
THWACK!!
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Shaggy »

Has everyone stayed away from the smuggler? Or is it just the same as the bounty hunter just considered a "good guy"?
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Re: Beta Review

Post by KetMaliss »

Shaggy wrote:Has everyone stayed away from the smuggler? Or is it just the same as the bounty hunter just considered a "good guy"?
Actually, the Trooper is the Bounty Hunter equivalent; Smuggler is the Republic variant of the Operative...which I haven't seen one person comment on. A few of us tried the Smuggler; in fact X raved about it.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Cadden »

Ket... what was that for? I was talking to Kytross, damn you! :lightsaber:
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Re: Beta Review

Post by KetMaliss »

Cadden wrote:Ket... what was that for? I was talking to Kytross, damn you! :lightsaber:
Just cuz.I heard "Duel of the Fates" when I read that and I just had to react. :vader:
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Re: Beta Review

Post by GrndAdmrlVegeta »

Is there one light side guild for all of Exodus or are there going to be multiple guilds? >.>
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Cadden »

KetMaliss wrote:Just cuz.I heard "Duel of the Fates" when I read that and I just had to react. :vader:
Ooooh... youuuu... I'll get you, Ket! Even if it's the last thing I do! YOU HEAR ME? I'LL GET YOU!
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Re: Beta Review

Post by KetMaliss »

Cadden wrote:
KetMaliss wrote:Just cuz.I heard "Duel of the Fates" when I read that and I just had to react. :vader:
Ooooh... youuuu... I'll get you, Ket! Even if it's the last thing I do! YOU HEAR ME? I'LL GET YOU!
Well, a pity it seems we're going different servers for our mains, then...cuz a Trooper vs Hunter battle seemed all but certain at this rate :p
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Re: Beta Review

Post by KetMaliss »

GrndAdmrlVegeta wrote:Is there one light side guild for all of Exodus or are there going to be multiple guilds? >.>
Honestly I'm not sure if there will be spin-off guilds, though to my knowledge it has not come up yet. As far as I am aware, there is one Sith and one Republic Exodus guild. I just always kind of assumed people would put an alt or main in one or the other, and play with their friends on any other server or guild they wanted to.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by GrndAdmrlVegeta »

hehe my main is gonna be in one of the other Exodus guild, unless something weird happens.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Coal »

KetMaliss wrote:
Shaggy wrote:Has everyone stayed away from the smuggler? Or is it just the same as the bounty hunter just considered a "good guy"?
Actually, the Trooper is the Bounty Hunter equivalent; Smuggler is the Republic variant of the Operative...which I haven't seen one person comment on. A few of us tried the Smuggler; in fact X raved about it.

I played the Agent through the first five or six levels and it's was generally like the smuggler, except for using rifles instead of pistols. Don't know much more than that as I was more interested in the story line than the play styles.

And that brings up one of the (many) things that make me like TOR. Intellectually, I know that my JK is the exact same thing as my SW. Their attacks do the same thing, at the same levels, they have the same weapons, etc. In WoW (yes I'm going with a WoW comparison, much as I hate to) my Alliance warrior felt exactly the same as my Horde warrior, just different races and voices, and that could quickly bore me playing either one. "Hmm, do I play the human or the orc. Six of one, half-dozen of another." But if I'm looking at my char screen, trying to choose between my Consular or Inquisitor, I have to ask 'do I want to throw rocks at the enemy, or zap'em with lightening?' The left side of my brain knows they're the same attacks, but the right side of my brain is screaming 'I want to do both!', and then I have to make a tough choice. It's really a minor thing in the whole game, but I'm really pleased they didn't just clone each class and put exactly the same thing on both sides.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Kytross »

Okay, where would I go to find out about the Exodus guild? Is there a thread or website you can point me to?
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Re: Beta Review

Post by KetMaliss »

Kytross wrote:Okay, where would I go to find out about the Exodus guild? Is there a thread or website you can point me to?
This is kind of the hub for all Exodus activities; includes links to both Exodus guilds on the official site, as well as what we hope will become the go-to for in-game guild activities...but to be honest, I haven't seen much demand for it and I'm not sure if anyone will use the forums provided to keep fluff off of Exodus General, as I suspect they will.

I hope that the guilds will be successful and find other like-minded players and a leg to stand on in-game and that there will be a need for the forums...but as it stands right now, there are maybe 3 of us that go there with any form of regularity, and nothing gets posted there anymore.

But that's where it will be, and where it is.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by xfiend1013 »

I raved about the smuggler with good reason. I got one of the buggers up to 16 over the weekend - had to send the wife out of town on a spa day, and got lucky with some hard rain.

It's a good class quest, there's some hilarious dialogue lines, and it doesn't matter if you pick light, dark, or neutral options, they're all pretty hilarious when picked with that in mind. Which I did. Of course.

The main mechanic that, at first, gave me trouble, is the cover system. It's a bit wonky. If you just press the button, you'll duck. If you're targetting an enemy and press the button, you usually roll to cover. Sometimes, you roll through enemies when this happens and your group hates you for it.

But it's interesting in that, while you're in cover, you gain concealment (a lot of attacks miss) and more fun, you gain a bunch of new attacks. You get the new attacks while ducking (which you have to do in situations where there's no available cover) but all the attacks will hit. Melee attackers can force you out of cover, so you've got to be a bit strategic about it.

I picked the far less popular "scoundrel" advanced class. Gunslingers get mobile cover and dual-wield and do a ton of ranged damage, from what I could tell.

Scoundrels stay more mobile, you get some positional moves, and a lot of point-blank moves are made more powerful by the class choice. AND you can heal pretty well.

The mechanic that becomes available after level 10 is "Upper hand." It's unique to the smuggler (unless the agent gets it as well). At first all you can use it for is a quick energy regen (handy!) and later it translates into free attacks or free heals.

You get it by doing a point-blank shot, kicking someone in the nads, or pistol-whipping them. Once you've done one of those things (you can get it with some other circumstances depending on your party, I'm not sure what, exactly, though.) you can break out the free attacks. Energy management is a must for smugglers, so upper hand comes in... handy.

I did a LOT of point-blank attacking. It's high damage, energy intensive, and more exciting than just getting somewhere and blasting away. Plus, kicks to the balls.

My personal favorite attack (I've mentioned this before) was to go into cover, attach the "sabotage charge" (does no damage until they're hit) then run out of cover, add knee-to-groin and watch them explode. I tempered this in more challenging fights, since the charge knocked people down, and the kick could stun, so I'd usually be a bit smarter.

Between the nut-kick stun, the flashbang grenade, and the droid slicing, there were some good crowd-control options on the smuggler.

The companion was bland, but I didn't have him doing anything, so maybe that was the problem.

I got my ship. It looks and feels just like the Ebon Hawk, but without the confusing interior.

Loved the flight sequences. It feels like Starfox and that's a good thing. I did all of them, bought all the upgrades, and got to level 16 with that.

I did some heroic missions on Coruscant, and I grouped up to help others with their class quests. Sadly, I had to do all of mine solo. HAN SOLO. Though I managed to get my ship after a few tries and dies. The grouping was great - XP bonuses, no splitting XP! Buffs! The mechanics also allowed me to get upper hand when my party did things (I think stun-related, but I'm not sure) and also allowed me to exploit the backstab move. All in all it was fun, not a chore, to get a group going. The max group size of four is perfect, and healing companions can really work if you can only get three.

Smuggler was fun.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by coronhorn »

I played a Smuggler through 28 a couple builds ago, chose Gunslinger for my AC and I enjoyed the heck out of it. The main quest storyline was quite enjoyable and your first companion makes an excellent tank for you once you get him. I did notice that the Trooper has picked up spare companions are quicker than my smuggler did, I still hadn't gotten my third companion by 28 on my smuggler and I've got 4 as a trooper at the same level. I gotta say my planned class for launch in the guild is a smuggler so I'm curious to see where the story goes from where I left off... I think a big part of my lack of companions was that when i got the option of nar shadda or taris I chose Nar Shada which was several levels above me, turns out you're supposed to go to the other world FIRST... ah well...

Ket there are starship upgrade vendors in almost every starport once you get your ship, one thing I noticed about them is that they get cheaper as you level i noticed about a 500cr drop in costs of the initial ones from when they opened up 12 to when I bought them at 16...
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Re: Beta Review

Post by KetMaliss »

That's probably the issue then, since I never really looked around the Starport once I got my ship. In fact, I got my ship the day before the final day, and didn't have long to play it from that point because of the timing of when I got it...if you followed that. So my sole interest there was doing some flight missions before work, then I got home from work, did the same, and the next day was the end. I didn't have enough time left to want to explore :p

You are correct in the Companions, though. You pick up the healer companion at the end of Taris, and a War Droid at the end of Nar Shadda, as I understand it. I'm not sure about the level difference being that much of a factor, though. I don't recall the exact range, but I know that it was minimal and there was overlap. I remember going back and forth looking at the galactic map going...which one first? Which one first? I couldn't decide; I ended up going to both planets to unlock the cutscene that would give me that planetary quest, and both were Yellow for me. Bear in mind, I was ... 18 when I left Coruscant so that might have been the difference in my experience versus yours; both planets apparently are ripe at that level range.

I do want to say that this creates some speculation to me, as to whether or not I might over-level the other planet when I'm through with it. If I have to go to both planets to get my 2nd and 3rd companion, and I'm factoring in near 10 levels per planet based on Ord Mantell and Coruscant...and how much other content is available before level 50. What does that mean for leveling? I know, I know that experience will become more important as the levels rack up, but at the same time, see the previous statement. If they are balancing each planet the same, then I'm worried I might over-level if I go to both planets.

Of course I might be worrying for naught; in previous beta tester leaks, Q&A'ers were concerned about under-leveling and running into drop spells where you were forced to grind, so it appears that issue has been resolved, at least from my (brief) preliminary play. We shall see...

I know I'll go Taris first when we launch though, because I want the healer chick companion. I do enough damage; I don't need the cat at my back with another big gun when I could vendor those greens/blues, instead of giving them to him.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Pryde »

As a side note, as a Jedi Knight and a smuggler I was taking out 8 to 10 guys at level 1 with hardly any trouble (I tend to be stupid and pull more than one mob at times). They get harder as you level up but then so do you though it won't always be a breeze and there is challenge to it but you won't feel like a wimp struggling with a single Orc. It takes a lot of guys to kill you and you're always fighting them in groups of 3-5. Special enemies (enemies of the elite variety or just those labeled as boss or guild leader, something along those lines) are more your level and above so those guys will be tough and you'll fight them one at a time or sometimes in a small group. You definitely get the sense of feeling overpowered when you first start out, though, and the combat is reminiscent of Luke Skywalker and Han Solo fighting their way through hordes of Storm Troopers. So basically that whole "heroic combat" thing that Bioware was going for? Nailed it.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by xfiend1013 »

Yeah, even when we were doing the instanced heroic runs we didn't have to do the whole "everybody gang up on the guy then move onto the next" thing.

But we did. Especially when one was a healer.

I think they could work on that a little - maybe make mobs in instances do more damage when no one is in their face, and increase their defenses when they're ganged up on?
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Pryde »

Holy shit, F puts you into cover? Omg, I would rather have used that than hit 2 over and over again. As soon as my quick shot hit 30 meters I wanted to use it more often but I had to click on it 'cause it was just out of reach. I'll have to revise my bars even more when the game is released. (Sorry, still reading through the first post. :P )

On another note, a friend of mine and I two manned the Esseles dungeon. We both had our companions with us so technically it was a group of four. Nick died a couple of times towards the end of a few boss fights but all in all we finished the whole dungeon without any party wipes. Two manning dungeons = win. Sometimes you just want to play with a friend and not have to wait on stupid people who make stupid mistakes. ><

Also, I was very slow in combat 'cause my computer just isn't up to snuff so basically you could say that Nick pretty much soloed the whole thing with the help of my companion and his and occasionally me.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Pryde »

Ooh ooh ooh! Best part of the Esseles dungeon? We jumped down into a garbage chute at one point and I said to my friend, "Damn it, Nick, I don't care what you smell just get in there!"
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Pryde »

Shaggy wrote:Has everyone stayed away from the smuggler? Or is it just the same as the bounty hunter just considered a "good guy"?
I'm not sure if "good" qualifies and I don't want to spoil any part of the story but from what I've seen the Smuggler class story is entirely self motivated.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by KetMaliss »

Speaking of the meters thing, I was soooo glad to see that it's part of the standard mob UI. I can't tell you how aggravating it was having to find mods for that and keep them updated in WoW all the bloody time, especially since I always tend to gravitate towards ranged classes.

To be perfectly honest with you all, I didn't have a problem with the UI that BioWare chose to launch with. I don't have a problem with most of it being unable to be resized, and I don't have a problem with the location of the chatbox either. I honestly don't get what the griping is about. I think people got way too spoiled to all the specialized mods that reworked the WoW interface and UI, and became too accustomed at being able to pick and choose from their choice of designs. I always favored the standard WoW, but I know plenty of people who found others more to their liking.

Seriously, someone explain to me why all the hate over the standard interface; I don't get it.


My only (minor) complaint is that perhaps where you are able to add extra bars to the left and the right, I don't really like the one on the left; I got used to having both on the right side in WoW, but that's just a personal thing. I'm sure somebody else would prefer to have them both on the left, but it's a minor nitpick. I wish you could choose, if they are going to open it up like that.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by xfiend1013 »

Heh, the thing I like most about playing the scoundrel is that I look cool.

I'm in a party with a guy who has two lightsabers, a guy walking around with a cannon on his back, a guy with a double-bladed lightsaber, and I've got a single lonely pistol and a hidden shotgun.

Too bad the gear I got started to look kinda ridiculous. The lower-level leather jackets and pants were much better than the crazy life-jacket-with-a-cell-phone inflatable coat stuff I started wearing.

But - striding into battle against guys with flamethrowers, cannons, and lightsabers when you're just toting one little blaster pistol?

Cool.

As for Ket, I'm with you, I pretty much always use vanilla UIs, I like RIFTs and I like the ones that WoW got as it got older. The ToR UI was just fine by me. I added a bar to my right but almost never used it - once I found out I could bind a few handy things to my keyboard (cover!).
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Re: Beta Review

Post by KetMaliss »

xfiend1013 wrote:Too bad the gear I got started to look kinda ridiculous. The lower-level leather jackets and pants were much better than the crazy life-jacket-with-a-cell-phone inflatable coat stuff I started wearing.

I added a bar to my right but almost never used it - once I found out I could bind a few handy things to my keyboard (cover!).
I love being able to keybind on my keyboard as well; best CPU gaming investment I made was springing for one of those keyboards with macro ability :p

As for your other comment, if it had mod slots you should have been able to hold onto it, and just upgrade as necessary. Extract the mods from the newer equipment and put them into the older equipment. Theoretically, you c an hold onto gear you like much, much longer this way. I believe Devs stated that was the intention, actually. Wear what you want and upgrade it as you see fit...unless the gear you referred to was the starter green that had no slots :p

The Trooper starts off looking like a Scout from Team Fortress 2; the Trooper gear didn't even start to look like Trooper gear until the end of Ord Mantell and nearing on Level 10 when I started getting Blue quest reward gear with Mod slots. I assume most classes work that way.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Pryde »

Daniel Ericksson has gone on record stating that with modifications you can keep the original lightsaber you build at the end of the Jedi Origin story all the way until level 50. So you should be able to do that with other things as well.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Pryde »

Kytross wrote:The better gear in game derives its stats from modifications...
Holy crap, I just thought about it and now I completely understand what that means! It didn't occur to me while I was playing the game but at one point it did seem weird that a piece of armor I just got apparently already had the mod I was trying to put into it. Like at first I thought it had automatically assigned my mod so I just hit apply but then the mod didn't vanish. So I just put it into another piece of armor instead, but now I understand.

For anyone who's still a bit hazy, though, imagine the reforging process in WoW. You get a piece of gear that has an int bonus, a wis bonus and a haste bonus. In WoW what you would do is subtract a little from say your Int bonus and add in a completely different stat but imagine taking that whole Int bonus off your armor and turning it into an item that you can use with another piece of armor instead. You can do the same with your wisdom and haste bonus effectively leaving the piece of gear statless. Then you can take those new items you made and put them into any item you wish (obviously with some restrictions to prevent duplication, I suspect), but that's basically what modding is in a nutshell.

And I'm sorry if I'm just repeating stuff that people already know but I figure that if I didn't realize it then there are probably other people who haven't realized it as well. Basically, if you've got a shirt you like that has mod slots on it and you get a shirt you don't like that has better stats then take the mods out and put them into your old shirt.

Gawd, I wish I would have known that earlier. I picked up a shirt that was very reminiscent of Han Solo's get up but I replaced it with some weird body armor like thing later (probably the same thing X was complaining about ;) ). I am so keeping it next time I pick it up. I'll have a green shirt with epic level stats! ^^
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Pryde »

And I apparently skipped over the part where Ket explained the whole thing in fewer words... *Sigh* I'm exhausted, I'm going to bed. :P

By the way, I'm surprised no one mentioned Rogue Squadron in comparison to space combat in TOR. I know we all grew up with Starfox but we're also a bunch of Star Wars nerds, right? Aside from a few free roaming areas Rogue Squadron is basically the same thing. Also, I didn't save the shuttle. It blew up, I was sad. I really could have used an upgrade to my turbolasers, that probably would have helped out a lot in taking out those scouts. I wanted to play with it more Monday morning before work, maybe go back and visit that starship upgrade vendor I saw at the Republic Fleet, but then my internet decided to go out again. Stupid Comcast...
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Shaggy »

ok so what is the game mechanic (meaning attacks and defenses)like? Is it more WoW in style or KOTOR? And if someone could explain the differences (Sorry I don't like WoW and the game mechanic and buttons of EvE are much different)
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Re: Beta Review

Post by GrndAdmrlVegeta »

The game mechanics are identical to WoW. The only really unique things are the animations, which are a thousand times better, and the cover system that smugglers and agents get.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Kytross »

For which class Shaggy? Each of the four classes plays very differently and has a unique resource system, as I mentioned in the initial post, and they grow somewhat different depending on which advanced class you pick. That leaves you with 8 advanced classes with 3 skill trees each.

Comparing SWTOR to WOW is like comparing lemons and limes. They sure look alike but once you bite into one you'll know the difference.

Maybe someone who's played EVE could answer your question better.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Darkheyr »

The core mechanics are exactly like in WoW. That is, the interface, the general type of ability (instant, channeled, cast-time, cooldown etc), the talent system, the controls in general. You have a health bar, and a resource bar of varying kinds depending on class and advanced class.

But thats where it ends, really. The classes themselves feel different. Even the Sith Inquisitor and the Consular feel different, despite being nigh-identical in mechanics.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by GrndAdmrlVegeta »

As far as general game mechanics, there's no difference whatsoever. Someone who doesn't like wow's twitchy priority-based, hotkey gameplay is probably not going to enjoy this game either. To be honest, the sith warrior/jedi knight gameplay did not feel much different than wow warrior gameplay. The trooper felt a lot like a hunter, especially after I got my first companion.

Don't get me wrong, I love this game and I plan to swear off wow for a while to play this instead, these are just my observations.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Cadden »

I wasn't a big fan of all the hotkey usage, either, tbh. I enjoyed the game well enough, but having to remember where your hotkeys are leading you in that tiny little, hardly descriptive icon list at the bottom of the screen, away from the action, just doesn't work for me. SWG had that part right, in that you could just glance up, while keeping an eye on the action at the same time, quickly see the icon and go, "Oh, that's for doing this, got it."

In this one, I'm all, like, "Now, what was that hotkey for? Wait, what, why am I dieing! WTH!" ... Yeah.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by Pryde »

I always tend to put my most used abilities in the first six slots as those are easier to reach for me. In WoW that usually meant the first three keys were attacks and the fourth was a heal while the fifth was a bigger heal just in case. For anything else I might use I just committed the icon to memory as opposed to the number I set it for. After you find it enough memorizing where it is isn't a problem.

Edit:

Oh, and I also try to put any abilities that I use a lot but have no keys for towards the middle of the hot bar and center of the screen because that's where my mouse tends to be 90% of the time. So finding an ability not hotkeyed to 1-6 usually becomes a matter of just moving the mouse straight down a bit.
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Re: Beta Review

Post by xfiend1013 »

I do the same exact thing Pryde.

I'm not a raider or a PvP god or anything though.

It's a real sort of issue that MMO peeps need to take a look at - before WoW came out, characters that had a lot of special moves were wizards, and if you moved while casting a wizard spell, it failed. There weren't a lot of instant moves to be done while you were running around like a mad-man trying to get in the right position, avoid a rooted guy, etc.

But when I'm playing WoW on my warlock, I've got like literally fifty buttons and twenty of them are stuff that I have to go and click while still running around like an idiot.

I don't know of a solution, but I'm not a team of fifty bright programmers and play-testers, either.

One thing I liked that TOR didn't do, was in RIFT, where moves with pre-conditions (you get stunned, you block, you critical, you dodge, they dodge, etc) popped up off to the side of your hotkeys when they became available. I ALWAYS used those abilities in that game, and almost always missed them in WoW.

Another game with a cool thing (WoW does this) was EQ2, where you had chain moves, and the next move in the chain would have a little sparkly outline.

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Re: Beta Review

Post by Balsa »

Or rebind the keys so they're within easy reach! (I've got my 7 to = keys rebound for W, R, S, along with their Shift + key combination.) No more clicking buttons with the mouse!

Has there been talk of what the endgame is like? Will it just be raiding?
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